Thursday, December 4, 2008

India vs Pakistan - Evaluation on Military Strengths

Dmitri, August 6th, 2007

Manpower and Ground Forces

India has the second largest manpower in its military globally - at 3,773,300 personnel (2005), next only to China. Pakistan has a much smaller manpower of 1,449,000 personnel which is proportionally higher than India in terms of their population ratios. Pakistan’s ground forces are equipped with American or Chinese weapons like FIM 92 Stinger SAMs, BGM-71 TOW anti-tank missiles, T-82 tanks and other equipments. Indian ground forces are equipped mostly by home-made or Soviet technologies like IR guided 9K35 Strela-10 SAMs, 3rd Gen IR guided Nag anti-tank missiles, UAVs and a large inventory of tanks and support vehicles. In terms of numbers and equipments, both Indian and Pakistani ground forces are on an closely equal footing.

Comparison of Air Forces

As of 2006, Indian Air Force (IAF) has over 170,000 personnel and 3,382 aircrafts of which 1,330 are combat aircraft operating off 61 airbases - making it the fourth largest air force in the world. India’s strike fighters consist of Russian and French aircraft like Mikoyan MiG-29, Dassault Mirage 2000, Sukhoi Su-30 - the last one developed under dual licensing by HAL, India’s aerospace industry in Bangalore. In addition to these, India’s air force owns ground attack aircraft, reconnaissance aircraft, UAVs and support helicopters - a majority of them either of Soviet or French origin. Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has about 530 combat aircraft and over 65,000 active personnel, operating out of 9 airbases. Its strike fighters consist of US, Chinese and French fighters like F-16 Fighting Falcon, JF-17 Thunder and Dassault Mirage ROSE-III. It also has transport aircraft like Lockheed Martin C-130 and Airbus A310, however there are no UAVs or reconnaissance aircraft in the Pakistani Air Force.

Naval and Sea Based Forces

After the overwhelming losses in the 1971 war against India, Pakistan rapidly increased the size of its naval fleet which doubled in the 1980s after a massive 3.2 billion dollar military and economic aid by US President Ronald Reagan. At present, Pakistan’s navy owns over 45 vessels , most of them of US or European origin which include submarines, destroyers, frigates, patrol and mine warfare boats. It operates from its sole naval port in Karachi and naval facilities in UK, USA and France. It had recently been involved in various humanitarian operations during the 2005 Tsunami in South East Asia. Indian Navy on the other hand, is a three dimensional naval force consisting of missile-capable warships, an aircraft carrier, mine sweepers and a host of marine aircrafts; most of its warships indigenously built in its own dockyards. The navy operates from its major naval bases in Visakhapatnam, Mumbai, Goa and the Andaman Islands. Indian Navy has significant capabilities of being a true blue water Navy and is experienced both in war and peacekeeping operations in the Indian Ocean.

The Nuclear Club

India tested a nuclear bomb in 1974 using materials from Canada and technical help from Soviet Union. However the embargo in heavy water export from Canada after the test stalled India’s nuclear ambitions till 1998, when it shocked the world by conducting five nuclear detonations termed as Shakti tests. The highest yield was by a 48 kiloton staged fusion device, which India claimed was a thermonuclear bomb but seismic data on the tests proved otherwise. In the same year 1998, Pakistan conducted a series of six nuclear detonations in a test termed as Chagai. The highest yield was reported to be about 25 kiloton from a two stage boosted device. At present Pakistan’s nuclear stockpile is slated to be around 30-40 warheads while India possesses 70-100 warheads. The nuclearisation of India and Pakistan became a turning point in the history of conflicts between these two countries with high tensions but no war, not very much unlike the US vs USSR Cold War.

Ballistic and Cruise Missile Proliferation

In the nuclear delivery front, both India and Pakistan have a series of ballistic and cruise missiles in addition to ground attack aircraft. The maximum range among India’s operational ballistic missiles is 2000 km achieved by Agni-2. India’s Agni ballistic missiles are indigenously developed by its own missile defence industry known as IGMDP. The maximum range among Pakistan’s missiles is by Hatf V Gauri which is reported to do over 2200 kms. Pakistan’s Hatf missiles are based on North Korean No-Dong series of IRBMs. Both Pakistan’s Hatf and India’s Agni ballistic missiles are nuclear capable. India has also developed a supersonic cruise missile BrahMos which is by far the fastest cruise missile at Mach 2.6 and maximum range of 290 km. It is reported to be nuclear capable but it is not confirmed yet. On the Pakistan side, its Babur cruise missile has a reported range of 700 km and a maximum speed of 880 km/h (Mach 0.7). As with India BrahMos, Babur is also reported to be nuclear capable but there is no confirmation yet.

The Final Verdict

Both Pakistan and India are almost evenly matched head to head in nuclear and missile fronts, however India has strategic and technological superiority over the conventional forces of Pakistan. Indian Navy is larger in fleet and personnel size with a more varied range of ships including an aircraft carrier while Pakistan’s Navy is smaller and has no aircraft carriers. Indian’s IAF is equipped with highly capable fighters like 4.5th generation Su-30s and 4th gen Mirage 2000s which are technologically superior to Pakistan PAF’s F-16s and Mirage IIIs. Additionally Indian pilots are better trained and more capable in air combat than Pakistani forces as was demonstrated by its various wars with Pakistan or joint exercises with US and UK. In the area of conventional ground forces both the Indian as well as Pakistani Army is well equipped and highly trained to survive in extremities of topography and climate in combat conditions, like wars in the high Himalayas.

If a purely conventional war were to take place between both these countries, India would most likely overpower Pakistan owing to its superior military technology and infrastructure, larger manpower, more territorial area and a strategic advantage in its sea and air forces. It must also be noted that a war between these two countries will matter more than India’s conventional superiority as both these nations are nuclear powers on an equal deadlock. India has maintained a ‘no first use’ nuclear policy on the lines of a similar policy by China while Pakistan does not have any such policy, considering their only hope against India is in nuclear deterrence. It would be risky for India at the present scenario to go into any aggressive war against Pakistan as the repercussions would be serious a nuclear devastation for both countries.


Comment:

India's numerical and technical superiority in a conventional war is beyond question - therefore Pakistan's low nuclear threshold and maintenance of the first-use option.

However, in a surgical kind of strike being talked about in Indian and Pakistani circles, over Muridke or Muzaffarabad , cruise missiles are likely to be used. The Pakistani and Indian capability is evenly matched in these except for India's supersonic cruise missile with a speed of Mach 2.6 which is an obvious advantage in this kind of a strike, but it only has a range of 290 kms - enough to reach Muridke if launched from East Punjab but not much more. Pakistan's answer is the Babur cruise missile with a range of 700 km and a speed of Mach 0.7 - sub-sonic but pretty fast.

UAV's was the other Indian advantage which has recently been matched by Pakistan.

With the evenly matched air, missile and nuclear capability, a surgical strike doesn't seem to be the best option. If India is to win, it will have to be a full-scale conventional war with both sides avoiding breaching the other's nuclear threshold.

Is that possible?

Therefore, I do not think there will be an India-Pakistan military confrontation. God bless May 1998 for both.

92 comments:

Majumdar said...

Zee sahib,

I agree with your summing up. There will be no war unless someone really goes loco on either side. I think LIC thru proxies will continue on both sides.

Regards

Anonymous said...

THESE ARE BIAS FACTs . REPOTED BY INDIAN NATIONAL. GIVING FALSE SENCE OF SECURITY TO INDIANS. CALLING F16 AIR CRAFT INFEREIOR TO INDIAN AIRFORCE IS PROOF OF LACK OF kNOWLEDGE THIS SCRIBER HAVE. THERE IS NO MATCH FOR F16 IN iNDIAN'S AIRFORCE INVENTORY. AND SECONDLY PAKISTAN NUCLEAR ASSETS ARE OVER 100 WARHEADS ACCORDING TO lATEST NTERNATIONAL WORLD'S ARMFORCES REPORT.

Anonymous said...

If there was to be a war with pakistan, we will most probably see a 2 pronged attack into pakistan one from the indian front and one from the afghanistan front. USA can under no circumstances afford to let the nukes in pakistan either be used or to fall into jihadi hands. China has to act moreresponsiblyin this case as they too are facing a jihadi problem, the dont realise they are feeding a monster which will bite them, USA did the same and is now regretting it

Preet kamal Singh said...

There is no need to mention india's power incase a war takes place. The world has already witnessed 3 wars between these two neighbours. If war takes place then India would conquer Lahore within three days.....jai hind

Anonymous said...

India spends so much on defense that they might just go on full war so that in the future they dont hv to spend so much on defense . They can recover all the money once Kashmir is free and ppl hv tourist from all over the world . Build a casino there as well .

quintessence said...

Saying Indian army is on par with the Pakistani is an insult to the Indian army...Do not mistake me for being a Zionist but this is a FACT..!

Anyone doubting this can ping me for a plethora of proofs..!

Anonymous said...

who the hell says these are informations are wrong and full of bias fact's..let me tell that person that if we the INDIAN's will start pissing on pakistan border then there will be no use of INDIAN AIR FORCE or INDIAN NAVY or even INDIAN ARMY,,since u shit ass pakistani's will be suffering the heaviest flood ever seen by mankind(though not applicable for u,for u i should use porkkind's)..so fuck ur mouth and run with ur ass in ur hands,because very soon we the INDIAN's will be fucking u to death...
VANDE MATRAM...JAI HIND

vipul said...

well written friend !!!

and Mr. Anonymous... Pakistan might be having F-16's from US junkyard... but their pilots are 'indigenous'... and they cant help that...
and dont mention how many chinese nuclear warheads you possess, coz that only shows how afraid you are of indians... lol

Anonymous said...

In the event of an unlikely war, there is bound to be insurrmountable casuality on both sides. However, India would stand tall by the sheer magnitude of its land mass. Most of pakistan's strategic and military establishments can be neutralised by India's superior airforce. The Sukhoi 30 which India possesses is widely regarded as one of the best in the world and for your kind information Mr.Anonymous, the F-16 or the F-15are no match. Infact the the Indian Airforce is highly regarded world wide because of its superoir fighter pilot. Infact they were able to out maneouveor their american pilots in ariel combact.

Coming back to its air superiority, the Indian airforce could clinically nerutalise all major establishments in pakistan within hours. However, the same cannot be said about the pakistani airforce as they cannot cover all major targets in India because of the sheer size. Infact all major military and strategic establishments are scattered all over the country.

So in an event of a conventional war, both sides would take heavy losses but India would hold out the longest because its more equipped, armed and financially capable of carrying out a full scale war.

God forbid a war but pakistan should realise that it cannot go on with its agenda of carrying out a proxy war by indirectly supporting these inhumane terrorists would carry out jihad in the name of religion which is totally ridiculas. I mean which religion in in the world would profess to killing innocent human beings to spread the world of islam or achieve thier whatever goals they have.

I sincerely hope the new civilain govt in pakistan would cleanse the military establishment of all radical elements and also change the culture at the ISI.

Let Indians and pakistanis strive for peace and prosperity. To all pakistanis who miht read this, look at the progress India jas made over the last decade or so. It has become a regional and potential economic and military superpower. This was all achieved because it followed the path of secularism, democracy and peace, the key foundations for a nations success. I realise India is not perfect but it's working hard to bring peace and prosperity to its people.

Anonymous said...

First and foremost, an earnest prayer that no war takes place. But in the eventuality of one, it will be a decisive war and let there be no doubt, Pakistan has more strategic depth. They have nothing to lose and will go all out with devastating firepower. It has been already prophesized as the war of wars, in which we already know the result. May God save us all.

Anonymous said...

Pakistanis are bloody ignorant of the repurcussions of any war with India. If any war takes place, PAKISTANIYON KO JANNAT BHI NASIB NAHIN HOGI.

VANDE MATRAM

Anonymous said...

Well Said preet kamal sahab...

Jai Hind !!

Zeemax said...

Anonymous,

I don't think this evaluation is biased. Besides, neither side can risk a full-scale war as it will inevitably turn nuclear.

Preet kamal Singh,

India would conquer Lahore within three days ...

Three days? In 1965, the Indian General had promised to have a peg of whiskey in Lahore Gymkhana the same evening!

quintessence,

Anyone doubting this can ping me for a plethora of proofs..!

I'll take you up on the challenge. Do come up with the comparative military capabilities from Jane's Defence Weekly which is an accepted authority over such matters.

Anonymous said...

While India has and will continue to have military superiority, Indians should take serious note of one fact- that India has failed on the diplomatic and intelligence front. HOW COULD THEY ALLOW PAKISTAN TO BECOME NUCLEAR? This is a misrable failure of india's foreign policy. Blindly opposing the USA and getting into bed with Russia has led to this mess. Sadly the indian public also has double standards- one the one hand, they opposed the US but on the other, given a chance they rush for US visas! Isreal had offered to bomb Pakistan's nuclear facility at Kahuta in 1984, what did india do? sign a pact with pakistan that prevents attacks on nuclear facilities. Can there be a more idiotic bunch of people?
The only hope for India is to join the US and form an alliance- USA, Isreal and India- to take out the cancer of islamic radicalism. Otherwise, Hindus can say goodbye to their existence! Indians still don't know what they up against, the US and Europe have realized that Islamic terror threatens the very existence of the human civilization and are doing everything to take it out! When will Indians- the Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains, Parsis etc. wake up and unite against this monster?

economist said...

dear Indians,,
as an Indian,i m really sorry for you.why are you wasting your time in such valueless discussions.our economy is booming and we have to keep it in track.about this topic i would like to say "A STRONGER ECONOMY CAN WITHSTAND A LONG BATTLE".For example USA and RUSSIA.though RUSSIA is strong from military point of view,but can't withstand a long in the battle in front of USA because of its lackluster economy.so waste your time in developing our economy.please abort yourself from this valueless discussion.... i think there will be no exception in my opinion.

Dhaval said...

Dear Friends,

Info. is kindly interesting. First war is not the first solution. But if it takes place then india will rise like a sun and will spread its indian rays in a dark nation like pakistan which is handled by jihadees who kills inoccents only. Do not underestimate india on any base. We do not war also our innocent people should not be targeted.

God help pakistan

Jai hind.

Anonymous said...

The deployment of Indian forces after parliament attack made the Pakistan army's eye water. It is true that pakistan is no match militarily or economocally. If war was to break out pakistan would be bankrupt in 3 days, its already on the verge of bankrupcy.

Anonymous said...

Hope there is no war..

War is not good for anyone...India is doing well economically ...presently we should concentrate on decreasing poverty and providing education to all..

Similarly pakistan should also concentrate on development..

Who will die if there is a war... Ppl frm India and Pakistan..not frm US or China. Think about families of soldiers who die due to unnecessary political tensions..

Ananth said...

Peace is the only answer in a troubled world. Please stop your discussions and Indians or Pakistanis as you might be, stand together and oppose fear mongers who try to spread terror in the name of religious fundamentalism. We only have one world..our boundaries will dissolve in time just like the earth has gone from being flat to a sphere.

Anonymous said...

God forbid if there is a war like situation, Pakistan doesn't need to take any action, before that India will face thousands of Mujahideens at the border... just recall the statement of Mulla Umer that if India even try for a war like situation, we'll keep aside all the differences with Pakistan (it is our internal matter) and rage a war against India... These Mujhideens are not handled by the US & NATO forces even after having all the high tech weapons and intelligence network.. Do you think India has more sophisticated weapons and network than West?? So Pak army will come later, only the Mujahideen will take care of you... ENJOY!!

pavocavalry said...

Now lets see how Indian performance was assessed by Indian military historians regarded as reliable in India:--

In words of an Indian observer 1 Corps advance in Shakargarh was “pathetic”... “the plan was not designed for a quick advance but was merely to play safe”!39

This was despite the fact that this illustrious career officer had fought the 1965 War in the same sector (pathetically at Gadgor), had served as Director Military Operations and then risen to three star rank to command India’s elite strike corps on the Western Front!

Praval described this illustrious three stars corps battle as one “smitten with indecision”, a corps whose offensive failed “without the capture of its initial objectives” ...one which advanced just 13 kilometres in 12 days.40

pavocavalry said...

GENERAL HARBAKSH SINGH COMMANDER INDIAN WESTERN COMMAND IN 1965 ON MISERABLE PERFORMANCE OF INDIAS 1ST ARMOURED DIVISION IN CHAWINDA (WHERE IT HAD A SUPERIORITY OF 5 TO 1)

Harbaksh Singh also accurately summed up the Indian failure; 'both 16 Cavalry and 17 Horse failed to determine the strength of the opposing armour and displayed little skill in outmanoeuvring it... the Brigade Commander made the unfortunate decision to withdraw 17 Horse from Tharoah for countering an alleged serious tank threat on the Left flank. This was a grave error of judgement as 4 Horse which by this time had been released to the Brigade by GOC 1 Armoured Division, could have been used to meet any flank threat posed by the enemy armour. The blunder cost us dearly.We made an advance of only four miles beyond the bridgehead when a much deeper penetration could have been achieved. The fleeting chance that could have been exploited to gain a striking success, was lost forever.... and while we were fumbling about ineffectively in a chaotic situation of our own creation, the enemy had that vital breathing space so essential for a quick rally round from the stunning impact of surprise. We courted a serious setback through faulty decision and immature handling of armour which the enemy was not slow to exploit. From now onwards,the thrust intended to keep the enemy off balance and reeling until the final blow by sheer speed of advance, turned into a slow slogging match—a series of battering-ram actions'.46

pavocavalry said...

TIP THE SWORD WITH URANIUM-

http://low-intensity-conflict-review.blogspot.com/2008/12/assessment-of-how-pakistan-should.html

Anonymous said...

Everything written are nice to read, but the war will not happen in any case, because India knows that USA will stand with Pakistan and economic growth is more important than war.

vishal said...

I believe that the true answer will be economic victory. Lets do proxy war, start arms race, let Pakistan spend money there and they will destroy itself (they will eat grass and make bombs).

(By the way f-16 is the plane which is offered to India too, including f18. India has not decided yet. capabilities of su30 are un questionable)

Anonymous said...

One Taj mahal hotel took 72 hours to get two gunners. All of you be realistic pls. Think of resolving matters in a wise way.

Anonymous said...

So IAF has no answer for F16s. Well during Kargil a MIG-29 had 3 PAF aircrafts locked on, while still flying in the Indian airspace. The aircrafts were, you guessed it, F16s. Our pilot never got the permission that he was waiting for.

Anonymous said...

hey man...can we get a new editor? an English daily should not be spelling personnel wrong! you sure you aren't part of that government alliance that doesn't really work either?

Rahul said...

hey man...can we get a new editor? an English daily should not be spelling personnel wrong! you sure you aren't part of that government alliance that doesn't really work either?

Rahul said...

hey man...can we get a new editor? an English daily should not be spelling personnel wrong! you sure you aren't part of that government alliance that doesn't really work either?

Vivek said...

pakistani financial condition got so worsen that they can't be in arm race even if they matches with indian military at present .............. remember the RUSSIAN AND AMERICAN NUCLEAR war ...........the one with strong financial background will win.

Pakistan became the root of terrorism and people are afraid of investing in pakistan as they posses more Negative energy.IF any one have played strategy game like "age of empire" they won't have any doubt in figuring tht INDIAN Military will became more hi-tech and superior in future as funding will never b problem.

Sameer said...

My dear friends,
With India's defence budget many folds higher than Pak, India has acquired considerable military power in comparison to Pak. Infact, there is no comparison left now.
Pak is nothing.
Please also visit www.globalfirepower.com

The picture wud be more clear to u people.

Zeemax said...

Anonymous,

... during Kargil a MIG-29 had 3 PAF aircrafts locked on ...

As per a serving PAF Air Vice Marshal's account of the Kargil conflict reproduced by Pavocavlry a while ago, some IAF Mig 29s would routinely stray a few Kms into Pakistani airspace by mistake and were immediately locked on by F-16s. But since every time they turned back, any escalation was prevented.

(P.S. So many anyonyms? One doesn't know which is which. Can we have some nicks please? Thanks!)

Zeemax said...

Rahul,

... an English daily should not be spelling personnel wrong!

The article is reproduced verbatim and the source is hyperlinked at the top.

Even though I am not not an English daily, I do not usually make spelling mistakes :)

Sameer said...

I can see some Pakistanis self proclaiming their weapons' superiority which they have got as donation from the scrap of US/China.
Well, why don;t u just google and compare ur weapons with that of India's?
Also go to www.worldfirepower.com and see where Pak stands in terms of India.

Anonymous said...

Can you please explain me one thing, Europeans are after fighting with eachother for 1000 years have become like one country through European Union.And we after living together for 1000 years are fighting like dogs and even right now discussing war.Bullet,missile or bomb has no name written on it, it will just kill any human.It will not distinguish Indians or Pakistanis.This region will go back 50 years, if full fledge war breaks out.Please work together to make this region Srilanka,Afghanisatan, India,Pakistan,Banladesh,Nepal a peaceful place.

Anonymous said...

well done my brothers! well done Indian. I always wanted to see such type of agression from our people against to the enemy of the world especially for bloody dirty Pakistanis. You have done a great job in delivering the sourceful of information to everyone about India's strategic capabilities and intelliegence.

Keep on doing this, but pls don't forget that we have also big responsibility to improve our system socially, economically, politically from all the strategic perspective point of view which should also include very tough measure to improve our defense system ironically.

I am always with you my brothers. well done. JAI HIND......

Anonymous said...

come on guys everyone here is smart now .The only option india has is a military option and to totally destroy pakistan like iraq.We will have to divide pakistan in three parts where one part is balochistan second part is a smaller pakistan and third part i.e half
of the country adjoining to indian borders strategically in indias control which is completely annexed and maintained as miltary zone.Kashmir is taken back and even the parts adjoining to it so as to completely cut pakistan off from china and and have a land route to afghanistan and turkeministan through northern end and this also gives us systematic control over pakistan and new trade routes.I also think india is capable enough to gain control of pakistans nuclear options through covert operations just give our boys for once to show what they are capable of

Anonymous said...

I am deeply disappointed!!! Being french national this is an eye opener for me.I can see how much peace lovers indians are....Why on earth you guys are discussing war? Don't you look at poverty in your country?

Anonymous said...

just to add to the above comment pakistan dont have enough economic strength to last this war they are in huge debt and almost bankrupt with lowest international currency reserves.There can and will be international fallouts and pressure but for once let everyone do their jobs and the indian administration and politicians should fight it out in UN and show some backbone

Anonymous said...

french of all should not and no other have moral right to talk about indias peace records muslim european and english colonies have looted india to absolute poverty and now they talk about poverty when we have gone on to become self sufficient in lot of ways and will be by god a superpower by 2035

Bhavin said...

Guys, you know i have been reading almost all theads in this forum and it looks like they all written by indian.. suddenly i realised that no pakis can even understand the ALOHABETS OF ENGLISH.. so no point writing it here.. I am sure indians are pretty smart to learn URDU and participate in pakistanis' discussion forum.. Go India...

Anonymous said...

we are lucky in that we have east punjab between us(bharat) and them(pak). i say let them have a free reign in east punjab ,the area needs cleansing of sikhs, then we can go in and mop up the pak army.then with the implicit support of usa we can can take over the pak borders. akhand bharat will be complete jai hind bharat for hindus only

Maverick said...

I think there's not much option less for India. Pakistan dogs has asked for it.. poverty or not.. they asked for it.. GO India.. EYE FOR AN EYE... go get them and bring all of them to justice

Avijit Roy said...

Best option for India is to create in the mind of terrorists and their mentors. Start covert operations. Send armed commandos in disguise /militias/ pro-India mafia like Chota Rajan to kill the key terrorists, financers. Take tactical help from Mossad and create fear pschycosis in the mind of LET/ISI. Only ruthless terror will curb the face of terror. Diplomacy is not applicable for Pakistan and asking Pakistan to handover 20 terrorists sound kiddish. Start covert action soon and sooner the better.After such covert operation, India should deny the incident about the involvement of RAW and instead blame the "Stateless Actors" just like Pakistan deed. Put Pakistan's own medicine into their own mouth.

Anonymous said...

Not quite liked it to be frank. If there is a war Pak has nothing to loose. In the midst of a crippled economy, increasing inflation, low standard opf living, Pak would not loose much, however India would goback to 1900s if Pak sends a Nuclear weapon!!!!

reconThe ripper said...

india and pakisthan are still developing and concerned with their own problems. People of Indian empire (pakis+indians before 1947) loved their way of peaceful life and communal harmony. every thing is a fucking mistake of crooked politicians and cunning& stupid English assholes for dividing a country -so that they fight till their deaths when we lose our great indian empire to some foreign ruler (communist china & west). After being as puppets in hands of coldwar palyers and west, we still never learned and still fighting for years with senseless reasons just as two dying snakes hissing for a fuck. however democracies in indian subcontinent never went to war. May god stay with pakis for not to get ass kicked by their corrupt& stupid dictators once and shitgons again. if possible, an united alliance of pakis+indians must take revenge on the west for irritating attitudes and ruling us for centuries with bloody looting all our resources &leaving us in deep shits. yeah, we all should take our revenge on english. hindus and muslims &others (children of indian empire)lived in peace for abt 11 centuries where different dynasties and rulers maintained peace and harmony. why the fuck these fucking two centuries lead us to this deep tragedy ending up with lack of common sense and development- fighting for idiotic ideals & pride - giving another stupid initiation for another take over by other powers like china just like the british raj. however india is the big brother who should be more patient in dealing the young radical attitude of pakis. more imp concerns like bankruptcy & WMD's falling in radicals like ts & talibans should be dealed well if not pakis may blow up their own asses with their own weapons. it's a pathetic situation where people leaved for 20 centuries loving their subcontinent and ending up with bloody wars and blowing the hell out of indian empire. i say fuck all our politicans who led us to this hell & fuck the west& british chuts & rape the chinese for irritating us and our neighbors.
even a mighty monopolistic power like usa survived just for few decades with their stupid mistakes and blowing the shit of world & themselves. How long u think we can survive a devastating nuclear war with cunning communist & military dictators surrounding our great indian empire . I hope in coming centuries we the great indians will be controlling or commanding other civilizations on this blue planet.

UNITE URSELF & FUCK THE FREE WORLD.

Anonymous said...

NUMBERS ARE CORRECT
:
It is estimated that India probably has 100-150 nuclear warheads. Analysis from some sources suggests that there is sufficient weapons grade uranium and plutonium available to India to build up to 500 warheads, however.

Pakistan, meanwhile, is estimated to have 25-50 nuclear warheads available, although analysis from some sources suggests figures as high as 100 warheads.


http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jsws/jsws020530_1_n.shtml

Zeemax said...

Posters,

Do pause to view the following entry by Deepak Chopra - an Indian:

Mumbai attacks: Why it happened

Anonymous said...

I am a Pakistani, who was amazed to read the comments on this side;
Do the people wirting these comments shoot themselves with Testosterone every morning !!!
I don't think any one can disagree that India has a tactical advantage in terms of a conventional war, but can our countries actually afford war.
There are bigger fish to fry in the region rather than blaming each other or stating mine is bigger than yours debate.

Anonymous said...

India vs. Pakistan is a very simple calculation:

India is in the direct fallout zone of Pakistan - any exchange of nuclear weapons results in the complete uninhabitability of both countries - attacking each other is mutual suicide.

Find ways to combat extremists together and secure Pakistan's nukes - the greatest danger is an Al-Queda bomb used in India to start a holocaust that enables them to feed off the chaos.

pavocavalry said...

Pakistan Nuclear Scientist on India

With growing tensions between India and Pakistan , streets of Mumbai are lashing with angry voices of 'Revenge'. Media and people living in india are building up pressure on the politicians to take some action. Certainly the full fledge war cannot be an option for both nuclear armed forces of india and pakistan but limited 'hot pursuit' is the talk of the town these days. If suppose Pakistan specially Muridke near Lahore get some aerial attack on Lashkara-i-Tayyaba HQ , what will be Pakistan response. What PAF and Strategic Planning Division will do. Can we able to shot down thier planes. Pakistan top nuclear/missile scientist says that we can even shot drones of US but its upon Government when it will order. I dont know why awaz tv not uploaded this wonderful video so with thanks i am taking it from NaMaan video section as its discuss some 'inner secret' details of Pakistan Nuclear and Missile Programs


Dr. Samar Mubarakmand (born September 17, 1942) is Pakistan's top nuclear scientist, and the Ex Chairman of Pakistan's National Engineering and Scientific Commission(NESCOM), an organization regarded as the country's premier center of scientific research.


He has been awarded Pakistan's three highest civil awards, the Nishan-e-Imtiaz, the Hilal-e-Imtiaz and the Sitara-e-Imtiaz. He rose to national fame in May 1998 when he headed the team of Pakistani scientists which conducted the country's successful nuclear tests in Balochistan.



Dr. Mubarakmand received the M.S. degree in Physics from Government College , Lahore, in 1962, and the Ph.D. in Experimental Nuclear Physics from the University of Oxford, England, in 1966 where he was part of the team which commissioned a 22 million volt atomic accelerator. He has expertise in nuclear instrumentation, nuclear diagnostics, application of lasers, and fibre optics technology.



Dr. Samar Mubarakmand has been associated with a variety of classified scientific programmes in Pakistan. He joined the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC) in 1962, where he was in charge of the Directorate of Technical Development, one of the most secretive institutes within Pakistan and completely unknown to the outside world. He reportedly supervised several cold tests in 1983, and also developed a neutron facility for acceleration of explosion process in a nuclear device. In 1990s, he served as the Director General of National Defence Complex, another Pakistani organization shrouded in secrecy. He was appointed as the first Chairman of Pakistan's National Engineering and Scientific Commission (NESCOM) in 2001. He is now considered the main architect of Pakistan's missile program, which includes systems such as the Babur missile, Shaheen missile series, and the Ghaznavi missile system.



One of his recent landmark achievements is the establishment of Centers of Excellence (COEs) in the fields of Computational Science and Medicine, Control & Instrumentation, Fluid Dynamics & Engineering Design, Hydro Technologies, Wireless Communication, and Electronics and Composite Materials. These COEs are fast becoming the hub of advance scientific and medical activity in Pakistan, conducting research in areas such as stem cells, tissue culture technology, and production of cardiac stents.



Dr. Samar Mubarakmand is widely credited with bringing modernization in the design and development of many components and instruments, which are considered the backbone of Pakistan's nuclear and missile technology.



FORTUNATELY THIS PERSON DID NOT LEAVE PAKISTAN AND REMAINED FAITHFUL TO THE COUNTRY. HE HAS PASSED HIS LIFE IN STRENGTHENING OF PAKISTAN. NATION IS PROUD OF HIM. IN 2003 HE WAS THE ONLY PERSON IN PAKISTAN WHO WAS AWARDED WITH PAKISTAN'S 3 HIGHEST CIVIL AWARD.






Check his interview with Javed Chaudry on December 3, 2008


http://www.zshare.net/video/522145972cb789fb





Dr. Samar Mubarak discusiing Pakistan first Cruise Missile Babur, being the 3rd country of the world having this technology, check this YouTube video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8OnJLoRhmo

pavocavalry said...

Nuclear system ready-Pakistani Chief Nuclear Scientist on first use
Nuclear system ready: Samar

www.nation.com.pk

ISLAMABAD (Online) - Nuclear scientist Dr Samar Mubarakmand has said the country that uses nuclear weapon first in case of war would get benefit, adding that country’s nuclear system is ready and “we can launch nuclear missiles within short notice of 10 minutes if India tries to strike and make incursion in Pakistan.”

Anonymous said...

Indians & Pakistanis!!! Please stop debasing ourselves. The french guy is right. We need to get through this with unity and not war. In case of an offensive by India or US it is not the terrorists who get hit, it is the man on the street who is getting affected. He, his family and the whole society suffers. Do we need more and more repetitions. Indians are trying to stand up against the ineffectiveness of the political machinery and the bereaucracy now (atlast and I hope the fire lasts), it is time the Pakistanis did the same. Remember that Hemant Karkare & others were killed because of defective bullet proof jackets, when it cant stop a bullet from a pistol, what chance would it have against a bullet from an AK 47 ? Please stop this mindless hatred and abusing in the name of religion and nationality. God, if there is one, is common to all. Just that we see him/her in different forms. No religion advocates killing of your fellow men. The same Pakistanis were once a fabric of our own community. How many of you here have not ogled at the pakistani girls and women/men during the telecast of the cricket matches. Its time we stop this insanity. And Pakistanis please wake up to the fact you are breeding poisonous snakes within your own country. It wouldnt take long for it to bare its fangs and sink them in, ultimately destroying everything. Theres this guy called Zaid Hamid on pak media. See this guy talk on You Tube. If people believe in this kind of media talk, it is time they wake up. A majority of us Indians are against terrorists and not pakistanis. We condemn the functioning of the ISI and the weak ineffectual bureaucracy of Pakistan and not the Pakistanis themselves. We recognize you as fellow human beings and we do not consider you guys as enemies, irrespective of what your media says.

So please wake up, in time!!! Before its too late

pavocavalry said...

USA MAY MANIPULATE INDIA AGAINST PAKISTAN-Future Options for USA as assessed in May 2003-AN ASSESSMENT I HAD MADE IN 2003:---

http://low-intensity-conflict-review.blogspot.com/2008/12/future-options-for-usa-as-assessed-in.html

pavocavalry said...

BETTER TO ACT AND REGRET RATHER THAN NOT TO ACT

MACHIAVELLI

pavocavalry said...

FEAR MADE MEN BELIEVE IN THE WORST !

THUS THE PRE EMPTIVE STRIKE ON DELHI !

pavocavalry said...

MUMBAI TERROR ATTACK--THE ANGLO MOSSAD RSS NEXUS

BY AN INDIAN



Mumbai Terror Attack: Further Evidence Of The
Anglo-American-Mossad-RSS Nexus

By Amaresh Misra

03 December, 2008
Countercurrents.org

Now who has the last laugh? That is the question; I only have pity for
those who cannot see reality and who were so glib to buy into what the
media and political troubleshooters were saying about the Mumbai
terrorist attacks.

Consider this:

As a BBC report notes, at least some of the Mumbai attackers were not
Indian and certainly not Muslim.Pappu Mishra, a cafe proprietor at the
gothic Victorian Chattrapati Shivaji Terminus railway station,
described "two sprightly young men dressed in black" with AK47s who
were "foreign looking, fair skinned."Gaffar Abdul Amir, an Iraqi
tourist from Baghdad, saw at least two men who started the firing
outside the Leopold Cafe. "They did not look Indian, they looked
foreign. One of them, I thought, had blonde hair. The other had a
punkish hairstyle. They were neatly dressed," Amir told the BBC.

According to Andrew G. Marshall, the ISI "has long been referred to as
Pakistan's 'secret government' or 'shadow state.' It's long-standing
ties and reliance upon American and British intelligence have not let
up, therefore actions taken by the ISI should be viewed in the context
of being a Central Asian outpost of Anglo-American covert intelligence
operations."The presence of "foreign looking, fair skinned" commandos
who calmly gunned down dozens of people after drinking a few beers
indicates that the Mumbai attacks were likely the work of the
Anglo-American covert intelligence operatives, not indigenous Indian
Muslims or for that matter Arab al-Qaeda terrorists. The attacks
prepare the ground for the break-up of Pakistan and the furtherance of
destabilizing terrorism in the Middle East and Asia. The Mumbai
attacks had little to do with India or the relationship between Muslim
Pakistanis and Hindu Indians."Pakistan's position as a strategic focal
point cannot be underestimated. It borders India, Afghanistan, China
and Iran," concludes Marshall. "Destabilizing and ultimately breaking
Pakistan up into several countries or regions will naturally spread
chaos and destabilization into neighboring countries. This is also
true of Iraq on the other side of Iran, as the Anglo-American have
undertaken, primarily through Iraq, a strategy of balkanizing the
entire Middle East in a new imperial project." (See Marshall's Divide
and Conquer: The Anglo-American Imperial Project.)

Now I ask specifically: WHO HAS EGG ON THE FACE? MY DETRACTORS OR ME?

Andrew Marshall is a respected author; he is clearly saying here that
terrorists looked like Anglo-American covert operatives and that the
entire Mumbai operation was an attempt by Anglo-American forces to
destabilize India and push it further into the Israel-US orbit.
Marshall also says that Americans are keen to dismember Pakistan--it
is clear that in this project, America needs India as a firm ally--it
cannot afford Indo-Pak friendship at least on a long-term basis. The
Mumbai attack thus was multi-layered--and one of the reasons could be
to warn India that the Anglo-American elite has the power to penetrate
India, with the help of its own people. Clearly, the attackers would
not have come from the sea route without some kind of a connivance of
Gujarat and Maharashtra Governments with the terrorists, and the
connivance of RSS type Hindutva elements as I will prove later in the
piece.

This afore-mentioned report appeared on the BBC, a news agency which
pro-west, Muslim-haters and all NRIs love to see. NOW I ASK THESE
PEOPLE: why are you adopting double standards? Now a BBC report is
incovenient because it militates against your idea of what happened in
Mumbai?

Even the Indian Government is aware of this reality. That is why it is
not issuing statements in a hurry and that is why the kind of
Islamo-phobia seen earlier after Bomb Blasts is not being seen now.

A second report is more shocking--some news channels captured it but
then it went off air:

One Police officer who encountered the gunmen as they entered the
Jewish Center (Nariman House) said the attackers were white. "I went
into the building late last night" he said. "I got a shock because
they were white. I was expecting them to look like us. They fired
three shots. I fired 10 back".

The Nariman House affair brings the Mossad angle to the fore. Two of
the `hostages' killed in the Narimam House were identified as Rabbi
Gabreil Holtzberg and his wife Rivka. They ran the center as
spokespersons of the Chabad Lubavitch movement.

Now the Chabad movement is one of the many sects within Israel and
Judaism. But of late it has come under the Zionist influence. Now what
is Zionism? A brief digression would suffice: Zionism is the political
ideology of racist Jews, just like Hindutva is the political ideology
of a section of `race conscious' Hindus. Just as a majority of
Sanatani Hindus have opposed Hindutva, a majority of Jews oppose
Zionism and its fascist-anti-religious tone.

In opposition to the teachings of Judaism, the orthodox Jew religion,
Zionists want to dominate the world; they see the `Jewish race' as the
most important, almost divine, race in the world. Zionists are opposed
to democracy and even the concept of naitonhood. Zionists believe in
creating murder and mayhem as a matter of policy.

In America, Zionists have entered into an alliance with the American
elites--the White-Anglo-Saxon Protestant (WASP) forces--which rule
America. The reasons for this alliance lie in the way the Zionist
agenda matches with that of the American corporate and WASP elite and
is beyind the scope of this article.

People who do not understand Zionism will never be able to understand
what happened in Mumbai.

Back to members of the Chabad-Lubavitch movement killed at Nariman
House--people have asked how come the Rabbi and his wife were killed
if Mossad is involved in the Mumbai terror attack?

The answer to this is being forwarded by Jewish anti-Zionist websites.
They also detail the sectarian history of the Chabad-Lubavitch movement:

The attack on Mumbai spotlights the ultra-orthodox (haredi)
Chabad-Lubavitch community and its international outreach network.
When Chabad outreach (keruv) started in the 1950s, it seemed rather
intellectually dishonest because the organization used nostalgia for a
never-existent Jewish past as a hook to enmesh secular or secularized
Jews in ultra-orthodox (haredi) practice as hozrim bitshuvah
(returnees, sometimes improperly called baalei tshuvah), but on the
whole the activity was mostly harmless in contrast with current Chabad
activities, which long ago crossed the border into dangerous territory.

As the Lubavitcher organization has become larger and wealthier --
partially because mobilization for keruv has brought large
contributions, members have shown a propensity for corruption.

Yet, the Lubavitchers have worked closely with Jewish racists like
Lawrence Summers and Alan Dershowitz in the ongoing attempt to control
discourse on American campuses. The wealthy Russian Lubavitcher hozer
bitshuvah Lev Leviev openly supports Zionist terrorism and settlement
building in the Palestinan occupied territories. Possibly because of
Leviev Chabad-Lubavitch has openly become involved in Putin's
struggles with Russian Jewish oligarchs.

Still, there is an even more sinister aspect to the Lubavitcher
organization.

Because Lubavitcher outreach offices are located in some of the most
important political, corporate and university centers throughout the
world, the Lubavitchers have put together a network that is
incomparable for corporate and international espionage as well as for
the secret exchange of information. Because Chabad Houses could
potentially act as safe houses, where there would be no record of a
person's stay.

Most people do not take the Lubavitchers seriously, but I have visited
Chabad houses and encountered senior Israeli government or military
officials (and probably intelligence agents). One can easily imagine
that Neocon intelligentsia trying to develop a relationship with
Hindutva (?????????) intelligentsia or politicians might have used the
Chabad Nariman House as a meeting place.

Here a Jew is saying that he has visited Chabad houses and that he has
seen covert operations going on and the involvement of senior
Government and military officials of Israel. This Jew writer is also
talking openly about a Neo-Con-Chabad-Hindutva tie-up!

The Jew writer mentions the Mossad involvement in Chabad Houses:

Because the Lubavitchers provide an unconditional welcome to all Jews
in the hope of bringing them closer to the Lubavitcher way of life,
the Lubavitchers have been open to potential subversion by Israeli
intelligence organizations. Mossad and Shin Bet found it quite easy to
penetrate the haredi community during the Yossele Affair. Jewish
politics has often involved infiltration and subversion of one
political group by another. The David Project Israel Advocacy
organization has used its educational programs as a means to
infiltrate more mainstream Jewish communal organizations with radical
Islamophobes and Jabotinskian Zionists.

To Zionize haredi groups that practice outreach, the Israeli
government need only give encouragement to Zionistically indoctrinated
Hebrew-speaking young people to participate in outreach programs, and
in a few years the targeted haredi community is thoroughly enmeshed in
Zionist thinking while Israeli intelligence organizations have a new
crop of saya`nim in place ready to serve in Zionist covert operations.

What is a sayanim? Go to the link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayanim and it states that "Sayanim
(Hebrew: "helpers") is a term used to describe Jews living outside
Israel who volunteer to provide assistance to the Mossad.[1] This
assistance includes facilitating medical care, money, logistics, and
even overt intelligence gathering, yet sayanim are only paid for their
expenses. No official number is known, but estimates put the number of
sayanim in the thousands. The existence of this large body of
volunteers is one reason why the Mossad operates with fewer case
officers than fellow intelligence agencies"

Now back to the link

http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2008/12/

chabad-lubavitch-dangerous-game.html

from which I was quoting the Jewish writer originally. He says that
the Lubavitcher shluchim (outreach emissaries) Gavriel Noach and Rivka
Holtzberg fit the `sayanim' profile to a "T" -- especially Rivkah.

So the two people killed in Nariman House fit the Sayanim, that is
Jews outside Israel who volunteer to provide assistance to Mossad,
profile!

NOW WHAT OTHER PROOF DO YOU WANT?

The Jewish writer of the afore-mentioned link himself asks the
question: WOULD MOSSAD HAVE KILLED THE RABBI AND HIS WIFE IN NARIMAN
HOUSE?
AND HE PROVIDES THE ANSWER:

Zionists have always used dead Jews to build sympathy for Zionist
goals and as cover for Zionist crimes against humanity.

Ben-Gurion explicitly stated that he would sacrifice German Jewish
children for the sake of Zionism while the Zionist leadership probably
learned the benefit of sacrificing Zionist operatives from the 1946
Kielce Pogrom. In this incident (Jewish) Soviet and Zionist agents
probably worked together to make sure that surviving Polish Jews chose
emigration to Palestine over a return to Poland.

Because the Kielce Zionist recruiters were killed during the pogrom,
the events leading up to the pogrom was rendered forever unobtainable.

Some reports of the Mumbai attack indicate that the Holtzbergs rented
space to the attack planners over the past few months and thereby
helped make the operation far more effective.

An opportunity to interrogate the Holtzbergs would have helped
investigators immensely.

AGAIN WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?

Another piece of massive evidence: In a telephone interview with CBC
News from outside the Center (Nariman House), freelance journalists
Arun Asthana said that there are reports that some of the militants
had stayed at a guest house there (Nariman House) for upto 15 days
before the attack. "They had a huge mass of ammunition, arms and food
there", Asthana said.

Now other reports have also confirmed that a huge mass of food was
ordered by the residents of the Nariman House. This food was enough
for 30-40 people for several days. Why was this amount of food
ordered? Also why was Nariman House not assaulted till the very last?
A Gujarati Hindu resident of Mumbai came onto TV on CNN-IBN to say at
around 3.30 AM or so, that for two months suspicious activities wree
going in Nariman House. A lot of foreigners were seen coming in and
going out. This matter was reported to the Police. But no one took action.

The CNN-IBN did not repeat the news; then it was only when the common
people of Mumbai threatened to storm the Nariman House the NSG
commandos were moved in--why this delay in assaulting Nariman House
when only two terrorists were holed in there?

This is sheer official complicity and nothing else--AN INVESTIGATION
INTO THE WHOLE NARIMAN HOUSE AFFAIR IS A MUST.

Then it was reported that " somehow surprising to learn that the
terrorists in Cama hospital in Mumbai were fluently speaking Marathi.
The terrorists who are said to have fired in Cama hospital talked to
an employee clad in civil dress in Marathi, reports a Marathi daily
'Maharashtra Times'.

The newspaper said the terrorists who targeted ATS chief Hemant
Karkare, police commissioner Ashok Kamte and encounter specialist
Vijay Salaskar were speaking Marathi fluently.

The newspaper claims the terrorists having fired at two watchmen in
uniform asked the other beside them on gunpoint in Marathi, 'You are
here an employee?' The employee caught the legs of the terrorist and
said, 'I am not working here. My wife has suffered from heart attack
and I have come here to admit her.' The terrorist asked him again in
Marathi, 'You are speaking true or false?' The employee answered, 'No,
by God I am speaking true.'
On this the terrorist let him go.

NOW WHAT DO WE MAKE OF THAT? Another report says that traditional Jews
of Mumbai who have migrated to Israel speak fluent Marathi and are
known to have been recruited by Mossad!

The death of Hemant Karkare remains a mystery. All official versions
are contradictory: some say he was killed near CST, some that he died
near Cama hospital, some near Metro cinema, and some that he was
killed while in a Police jeep. Also, where did the bullet hit him?
Some say on the neck and some near the heart. Karkare was shown on TV
wearing a bullet proof vest--he could not have been shot in neck in
that case, unless there was a sniper waiting for him.

Also if he was shot near heart, then when did he take out his vest? No
one has even bothered to answer this question. Also, another facet is
coming to light: that Karkare was killed near Cama--but Kaamte and
Salaskar in the Metro shootout!

Intelligent people--what do you have to say now? It is becoming
obvious that...

1. Several terrorists might have been white

2. Were they International mercanaries? If yes, then from which
country? Who collected them? It is well known that Mossad and CIA have
several mercenary organizations, including so-called Jihadi ones on
their list. They create Jihad and manipulate Muslims disaffected by
the Islamophobia in the world. Some of them might have been used in
the Mumbai attack. But why were they carrying American, British,
Mauritian and Malaysian passports?

3. Who were the Marathi speaking Karkare killers? The lane next to the
Cama Hospital is a deserted one--it goes straight to the backyard of
the Mumbai CID Headquarters. Anonymous sources in the Police have
revealed that Karkare was taken there, by a joint team of
anti-Karkare, pro-Hindutva Mumbai Police officers, and Chota Rajan
men. Now Karkare was opposed to Chota Rajan. Salaskar was anti-Pradeep
Sharma, another Mumbai senior Police officer now in jail, for working
as Rajan's shooter. So the Marathi speaking terrorists could either
have been Jews with some connection to Mumbai--or hired killers of the
Hindutva brigade or men of Chota Rajan.

4. It seems that several things went on simultaneously--the Mahrashtra
Chief Minister Vilas Rao Deshmukh was in Kerala when the Mumbai attack
began at 9.30 PM on 26th November. Then by 11PM Deshmukh had informed
the Home Minister Shivraj Patil--the latter has started proceedings to
send the NSG Commandos. So Deshmukh knew about what was happening by
11PM--then why was there no Mumbai Police on various locations between
9.30 and 1am, the time when Karkare arrived? The Mumbai ATS is a
separate organization. it does not lead the Mumbai Police. So the
40,000 strong Mumbai Police was absent from the scene of action
between 11pm to 1am and then Karkare arrived and he was killed along
with his men!

Isn't there something fishy here? Obviously the Mumbai Police was kept
deliberately away between 11pm and 1am, the time period when
terrorists were killing people merrily. Then Karkare must have been
told--and he went there expecting Mumbai police personals to be
there--but there were none or only a few! And he was killed!

Amaresh Misra is a freelance writer, historian and poet. He is the
author of Mangal Pandey: The True Story of an Indian Revolutionary;
Lucknow: Fire of Grace: The Story of Its Renaissance, Revolution and
the Aftermath, and more recently War of Civilizations: The Road to
Delhi and The Long Revolution. He can be contacted on
misra.amaresh@gmail.com

Zeemax said...

Mr anonymous #XXXXXX

"How many of you here have not ogled at the pakistani girls and women/men during the telecast of the cricket matches.

You can nuke us but please leave our beautiful girls alone :)

Zeemax said...

Pavo,

Too many holes in Amaresh Misra's account as well. If the attackers were White or Anglo Saxon, or Isreali or South African, one of them is in custody. This one actually looks like a Sikh to me. Could be Bangladeshi though. Certainly not any of Pakistani ethnicities nor any of the above races.

Then there's the Nariman House audio. That person was certainly in the venue because he confirmed the helicopter circling above when asked to confirm what he could see out of his window. He was speaking Hindi in a strange accent.

Too many holes in every theory except an Indian Muslim / Bangladeshi Jihadi group backed by foreign training support. Probably by Uzbek/Tajik/Chechen suicider groups based in Pakistan or Afghanistan. Not even Taliban.

This group of ten(?) was definitely more lethal than any military commandos in the world seen so far. Absolutely stunning in brutal efficiency.

Anonymous said...

As I see that India and Pakistan are neck to neck so going any one of them in the war against the other shall have disastrous consequences. This will probably end both of them too!. Secondly, Indians should not feel extreamly proudy and happy on the results of earlier war with Pakistan. Because Pakistan is much more powerful now and as per IMSS (International Movement of Strategic Studies), Pakistan was excellent in planning and strategising the moves. They lost due to unskilled pilots failed in destroying targets. But attending the main issue, Pakistan should also not play self destruction game by imposing terrorism when they know that India, if can not be defeated, surely can not be won too !

Zeemax said...

Anonymous #XXXXXX

India is in the direct fallout zone of Pakistan - any exchange of nuclear weapons results in the complete uninhabitability of both countries - attacking each other is mutual suicide.

This is an excellent point, and one which no one thinks about.

If Pakistan is nuked, the wind direction will carry the radioactivity over India. Depends on the timing though I guess.

Which way are the trade winds? The West to the East.

The trade winds act as the steering flow for tropical storms that form over the Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian Oceans that make landfall in North America, Southeast Asia, and India, respectively.

(Courtesy Wikipedia)

Pakistan/India simply cannot have a nuclear exchange. It will destroy the entire sub-continent.

Anonymous said...

hey zee, this is Anonymous #XXXXXX

;-), Glad to see something of mutual interest there.

But frankly speaking dude, am sick and tired of the charades being enacted in both the countries and all the wordly sympathy being generated. It is not about the identity of the killers, it is about the innocent lives that have been lost.

To quote verbatim from a popular movie on the same theme, " koi madarchod yeh tai nahin kar saktha ki mai kab maroon? "

And all this in aid of what?

High time people realised that they are being taken for a ride.

Zeemax said...

Anonymous #XXXXXX,

True. Any war between Pakistan/India will be unwinnable by either side. All this public square chest-beating is no use. A nuclear Detente' is better. We will come around to sanity eventually.

The ball is in India's court. Not in Pakistan's. India has to resolve at-least some major problems, like letting Kashmir go independent. That will ease the major tensions within India, though not all.

But Muslim 'terrorism' will end with the Kashmir resolution. Just the other (relatively minor) insurgencies like Maoists, Naxalites, Assamese, Nagas etc will continue.

Anonymous said...

Zeemax,

I am not here to make a political statement, pal. Every country has its own problems. I can argue both sides of a mobius strip.

But the ultimate reality is that which the common man on the street is going to face. Is he going to get a fair chance of winning his share of bread for his family? Political questions apart, that is.

All I can see that is that, there is no technical end to these problems unless the Stupid Common Man rises up and asks for his rights, the feasibility of which is a big question mark.

Leaving apart the fanaticism, is there someone walking down the street who is bothered about these political rhetorics?

I doubt it. Everyone is bothered about getting on in making his way in the world. Be it an Indian or a Pakistani or whomoever's nationality is in question.

Zeemax said...

Anonymous,

Politics is inseparable from economy, and unless economy is straightened - the common man cannot be helped.

You said "unless the Stupid Common Man rises up and asks for his rights"

What else do you think the common man is doing? The Bombay attackers were all common men. One needs to understand there're hundreds and thousand more where these came from.

Anonymous said...

Zeemax,

Politics is indeed inseperable from economy.

'..and unless economy is straightened - the common man cannot be helped.'

You said it yourself. Let us work towards strightening the economy first.

And as to the attackers being a part of the "Stupid Common Men". There is a difference, they are instigated stupid men without an idea as to their rights nor to the purpose of the cause, skillfully manipulated by powers with rather nefarious purposes, which is very far from what would be his common good.

Anonymous #XXXXXX

hindustani said...

hi i would like to say there is no matter of discussion on that
bcz we have to look closly this issue why we not destroy millitant base in pakisthan as well as their local contacts in india.inspite of thinks abt war.bcz if the war happens that will be win win situation for only and only for terriorist regime.world wide
so think positivley

Zeemax said...

hindustani,

I'm glad you said this.

Regards.

Anonymous said...

India Vs Pak ???? wake up guys...

Nukes/conventional wars are out dated option.......Biological weapons are lot cheaper and is key to end everything....while India/Pakistan ...US/Russia/China bark each other.....few mad terrorist with bio weapons could easily wipeout millions of people (no matter which country they live)

God save world

Anonymous said...

italian

Remember guys the mighty rome fell at hands of barbarian unorganised rogue GOTHS .They looted everything money goods supplies ammunition killed young and old stripped them of their religion and their way of life...
I predict INDIA WILL ALSO BE DESTROYED AND FALL A- HAVE SAME FATE LIKE US..
UNLESS u strike first destroys pakistans stratergic weapons and religious fanatism..HAVE BALLS FOR SURE..OR FACE DESTRUCTION..I know pakistan is a failed and rouge state and islamic fundamentalist are grave threat to world security..PEACE HAS A PRICE AND NEEDS BLOOD AND SACRIFICE TO ACHEIVE IT NO gandhiian philosophy will save u guys..

Ananda said...

There's too much testosterone flowing in both nations - so much that you can't think straight. If nukes are used, both countries are doomed - is that what you want? Think!! Macho posturing - haven't we had enough of this with the crazy russians, americans, chinese? Clear the corruption around arms and the military and kowtowing to the US, get a functioning economy in Pakistan and equal rights for women and all castes and religions in both countries instead! That is 'showing them'!

The latest incidents are diversion from the real problems of the people, outward toward an 'external' enemy. It's 1984-like manipulation, see it and don't buy it! Use some wisdom, clear these old problems, work together and lead the world together instead of fighting!

pavocavalry said...

thanks for introducing some sanity Amanda

yash mehta said...

There should be No War signal from either side, simultaneously there should be constant pressure from all nations to hand over terrorist.
No country should promote such inhuman activities

Anonymous said...

If we were to have war with Pakistan, mkae no mistake, we would blow them off the map, althought parts of our country might get damaged and lives will be lost.
But remember, Dog can bite man, but man cannot bite dog.
Pakistan is a lousy state, full of Jehadis and a political establishment made up of liars who are nothing more than pieces of shit. Hence in practicality it would not make sense to bomb Pakistan because we have too much to lose. On the other hand we would be doing Pakistan a favor by wiping out that nation.
Hence the best ofption would be for diplomatic pressure and cutting ties witht he country once and for all, becasue at the end of the day they are the dogs and we are the men (although obviously they are not our best friend, more like savage dogs).

Anonymous said...

dear indians, not to worry at all... most of missiles pakis use is chinese made, and we all know how these low cost chinese gadgets and devices work( :) ) In case pakistan targets gujrat and launches missile, it is more likely to fall in to bay of bengal. and i bet you guys pakistan will not dare to target north-east, because of the risk involved of the missile hiting china.

Anonymous said...

Tum hindoun ke maan ke kus...pehlunon..!!! tumhari maoun ke chut mein nuclear bomb phod dein gein...tumhari randi pehoun missile par mujraa karein gein...maan ke kus tum logon kee...attack kar ke dekho...tata bajaj ke maan chood dein gey..!!!tum loug apnay monkey bhagwan kay lun chaattay reh jao gey..!!

Anonymous said...

pehlun mumbai sey 10 bachon ko nikaal nahi sakay...yahan jehadi marnay ke baat kartay ho...pehnlun tum lougoun kay daddy bush bhi kuch nahi kar sakaa jehadiyoun kaa...maa ke kus pehn chood tum loug karo gey kuch...pakistan nay maa chood deni hai tum logon ke...

Anonymous said...

English Mofo English. Do u Understand what we normal ppl are talking about.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Sankha said...

"Bias facts"... Ha ha ha ... I can't resist but to laugh at you.

Don't forgetI admit, we (Indians) need to go a long step forward to become a well developed nation. But that does not mean that some idiots should start compairing it with a sub-standard 3rd world nation like Pakistan. Wake up dude, wake up... Be it military, economy, education, man-power, technology ....... Pakistan is no match to India...

Jai Hind...

Best Regards
S.S.Rakshit

Sankha said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Do not waste time in such dicussions.

Sach to yeh hain ki Pakistani apni tarrakki par jalate hain!!!!

Agar gaa*d main dum hain to aamne-saamne ka war ho jaye sab kuch pata chal jayega do din me.

Anonymous said...

If war happens, pakistan will be vanished from world's map....

Anonymous said...

pakistan has nothing to loose , no economy , no industrial set up, neglible oil refineries , nothing at all.

every country has an army

but in pakistan an army has a country

you are well aided by funds ( nothing of your own )

if your millatants do not kill indians then why will saudis pay you on next salary day

kashmir is actual a problem but killling innocent people anywhere is not justified by any strecth of thought process.

what happened in mumbai was an attack only on indian economy , not anywhere else by a corrupt mind of a neighbour who envy our growth and stature globally.


our momentum and growth is inevitable

inshallah! god bless india

Anonymous said...

nehru's dad
all u rag heads, rock worshippers and dark toilet cleaners are forgetting India can no longer threaten pakistan millitarily because Pakistan has the nuclear bomb so even if pakistan leaves its millitary as it is and the indians improve theirs 10 fold india still can't win a war with Pakistan. and also there are over 1.5 billion muslims in the world today and with islam the fastest religion in almost every country including in the USA, Britain, France i.e. all over Europe, Africa, South America, Theres even over 2oooooooo muslims in india,hey we don't even have to fire a single shot we as the true people chosen by the almighty will dominate not because of any other reason but the fact that the truth stands out plain to see. The truth of Islam. So Indians quarrel over and big your selves up for some thing that means nothing and we're happy lookuing after the rest of the world. So you can kid your seves all you want behind the seen even in front of your eyes we are winning this battle and will be victorious in the war so say and do wahtat you want cus you can't stop a good thing.

Anonymous said...

islam or any other religon is not our problem =---- our problem is your attitude towards anything but islam

life is simple give respect , earn respect.


numbers do not matter

where has pakistan reached by policies of terror and fundamentalisim


you cannot survive without aid

you live once and by god's grace it should be constructive life not destructive and full of envy.

B.RAJESH said...

one day or another later pakistan has to re-unite with its mother land (india)and that will happen surly in years. We as indians and so called pakistanis created by british for continuing their personal divide and rule policy have to prove that what they did was wrong. For eg : china is following one main land policy and united hongkong from u.k and now taiwan will join soon,germans united and brought down their berlin wallI think the day taiwan unite with its mother land china , following pakistan should do the should do the same and follow in taiwan steps and join with its motherland .india is not for hindu only,its for all the people who belive in love and peace and all should be called as only INDIAN AND ONLY INDIAN, so i call on the people of pakistanis small bothers and sisters to come back to home and i also call upon our indian leadership to go into history and unite all those countries that were once part of india before and i think advani can start that. jai great india with united back the ptresent(pakistan,nepal,bangladesh,burma,srilanka,jakarta,maldives)and anyother country that wish to come under great india blanket...jai india

Anonymous said...

fuck pakistanis, they always try to make themselves look more powerful than they really are.They are just afraid shitless.in fact they can neither match india gun to gun nor man to man.

goodeda1122 said...

情趣,情趣,視訊交友,情趣用品,情趣用品,飛機杯,自慰套,自慰套,自慰套,自慰器,充氣娃娃,AV,按摩棒,電動按摩棒,情趣按摩棒,按摩棒,跳蛋,跳蛋,跳蛋,男女,潤滑液,SM,情趣內衣,內衣,性感內衣,角色扮演,角色扮演服,吊帶襪,丁字褲

Anonymous said...

I don't want to mention I'm Indian or Pakistani.. I'm Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Christian or any religion.. I want to say one thing we are humans, we are born of one mother.. If any thing goes wrong families from both ends will suffer.. think a family without a father, a brother or a sister.. I hope if you'll realize if you lost one.. respect the value of life.. we are the neighboring countries... fight is not between the citizens.. its all political nd media for money.. Muslims and Sikhs are suffering in other becoz of us.. Every other country is connected to us.. without us thy cant survive.. may be in economy, power, intelligence or any kind.. we have the best talent.. We united no one can rule us... its all "divide and conquer". I dont want to blame foreigners.. its us who is doing this.. from my end.. I Love Pakistanis and Indians.. If I face any person of the countries.. I respect them as my family.. I have taken an oath .. ARE YOU !!!

qishaya said...

one day i went shopping outside,and in an ed hardy store,I found some kinds of ed hardy i love most they are Your website is really good Thank you for the information ed hardy ed hardy ed hardy clothing ed hardy clothing ed hardy shoes ed hardy shoes don ed hardy don ed hardy ed hardy clothes ed hardy clothes ed hardy bags ed hardy bags ed hardy swimwear ed hardy swimwear ed hardy jeans ed hardy jeans ed hardy mens ed hardy mens Thank you for the information